the capture of the capture of the...?

[MadFor3D]

O.k. I've read some posts that say that the state of the art for Super 8 is to shoot it and then blow it up directly to 35mm.

What if the final format is video?

A Rank transfer "wet gate" to DigiBeta?

Then, once you get your rank transfer tape, lets say "BetaSP", you then have to capture that video to your computer somehow. What's the best way?

I have a DPS PVR card that allows me to capture 720x480 .bmp image sequences from an s-video cable or component R, G, B inputs. For color film it would seem that the best quality I could get from a BetaSP deck would be to use the component R, G, B inputs of my PVR. I believe most BetaSP decks have outputs of this kind.

My problem is this, once you get your video doesn't re-capturing it to your computer degrade the quality? I know my PVR card does this with very little compression, however it is a generation loss all the same. And then, after all the editing, dub it back to video again?

It just seems like the best way to do it would be to have a transfer house that could capture the Super8 directly to an uncompressed movie file on a computer, and then just send you that. Am I missing something? Like, I'm even wondering if I might be able to find a house that would plug in my computer to the component R, G, B inputs of my PVR card if I sent it to them along with the footage... crazy?

Also, DigiBeta is much more expensive to output as well as renting the deck, is it that much of a difference in quality?

I love Super 8. How it looks, how it works with light. I just want to be able to get the best quality image possible with the format.

Here is a page I'm putting together with samples of all my various "experiments" with these different types of transfers. I'll add some color K-40 stuff, shot with a better camera, that I'll have Rank transfered soon.
http://www.MadFor3D.com/Pages/Galler...omparison.html

If anyone else has still samples of different results they've gotten concerning quality please e-mail them to me as I'm very interested in learning the best methods for doing this. Especially if they aren't to expensive.

Thanks,

Madrone


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[MadFor3D]

Thanks guys,

Yeah, Carlos, I saw those images from a link on this forum before. I really like the color in some of the K-40 shots. I ran out and bought two rolls after seeing those.

-M


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[mattias]

> Like, I'm even wondering if I might be able to find a house that would plug in my computer to the component R, G, B inputs of my PVR card if I sent it to them along with the footage...

that would probably be the only way of avoiding generation loss, yes. even if you actually got your stuff back as a qicktime file, they would have gone the same scanner->video tape->computer route as you would take yourself.

would it work? i have brought my laptop computer to post houses to transfer audio to fullcoat, and that worked, so you might want to try.

/matt

[Carlos8]

Hi, you can see some pictures from home made transfers using a Panasonic DVC-Pro camera connected directly to my computer (composite signal) and a condenser lens:
http://ar.photos.yahoo.com/bc/kacema...+fotos&.view=t

Caarlos.

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[Alex]

Keep in mind that whatever high-end quality you get will be compromised by it being an NTSC signal, even Digi-Beta.

Look into PAL transfers.

Since it is going to be output from the computer anyway, PAL may give you more quality latitude than NTSC.

Of course, we are talking about "conventional" non-linear editing with a video signal.

Higher quality choices for video I'm not aware of at this current time, and I have no experience with editing a very long sequence of digital files.

I supposed uncompressed HI-DEF is what we all want, but it is still not available to the lower budgeted filmmaker.

-Alex





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[Matt Pacini]

There are basically two options available here, with various sub-groupings: (This is assuming you are not doing a home-made solution, but a high-quality, pro solution):

1. Telecine.
This is transferring your footage to videotape, period. (Digibeta is the best, yes, followed by BetaSP.) If you go this route, you will have to capture/digitize to get the video data into your computer from a video deck, and yes, you are losing quality.

2. Film scanning.
This is what they do on big budget features, for the footage that they do any CG to, for effects, wire removal, etc., then output back out to 35mm film. It is the best, and what you're looking for (aren't we all!), but it is too expensive for any prjects other than real budgeted films (like you know, movies with budgets in the millions of dollars range! (about $3.00 a frame. Do the math!!!).
The benefit, is that they scan at anywhere from 2K horizontal resolution, to 4K, and each frame is a separate file, NOT a continuous video file, like AVI, Quicktime, etc. It has not only higher res., but the full range of color (theoretically).

That having been said, once you telecine, you need to figure out your budget for digitizing: how good of a deck can you afford to rent for a day. (DigiBeta decks are WAY expensive to rent, but if you can afford it, go for it).
Then if the deck you get has digital outputs (that your capture card can recognize, obviously), use those.
If not, then if it has component outputs, use those.
If not, then use the S-VHS outputs.

Avoid the composite outputs no matter what.

There are certainly many more details here, that I've left out (I'm sure you guys are getting tired of my lengthy posts!), but that's the basics.
If you want the details on how I did LOST TRIBES, feel free to email me directly at [email protected]
(Unless you guys want me to post the whole process. It would be pretty long, if I include the audio editing explanation also!)
But don't send me any virus' like one bozo did!

Matt Pacini

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[mattias]

exactly, but are there super 8 gates for the spirits? if not i guess we just have to dream on forever.

> each frame is a separate file, NOT a continuous video file, like AVI, Quicktime

excuse me but this you'll just have to explain. first: why would this be a benefit? second: what is a "continous video file" if not a series of still images (that can be split to "separate files" with one push of a button)?

/matt

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[ulrichsd]

The input/output (from worst quality to best) are:

1)Coaxial - like what your cable TV uses, one big black cable, mixes audio and video signals, and then seperates them.

2)Composite - Seperates audio and video. Has 2 Cords for mono sound and 3 for stereo. Red and white and yellow cables. Used on most VCRs. Combines video color (Red Green Blue) into one signal and then seperates it.

3)S Video - Uses composite cables, but also sends video info though S video cable for better picture. Used on most DVD players. But still combines video color into one signal and then seperates it.

4)Component - Seperates color into Red Green Blue. Best quality since it does not combine and then seperate the colors.

Hope this helps, I have a video card that has a capture card built into it (Matrox 400TV) I wish I would have looked into it more and got a seperate capture card, top of the line. The card I have has S Video but not component. I really haven't used it much yet, but it did come with some really crappy software, although made by AVID, and AVID ended up discontinuing there support of it, probably because they thought they could distribute bad software to the consumer market and people (like me) would buy it because it had the AVID name attached to it. If anyone has an editing suite they want to let me borrow for free, let me know.

Scott

[This message has been edited by ulrichsd (edited August 23, 2001).]

[MovieStuff]

That pretty much covers it concerning signals but there is one thing that is worth mentioning concerning SVHS. While it is true that the color signals are combined, the luminance signal is carried separate, which is what actually distinguishes it from regular base band composite video. Some people incorrectly call SVHS signals "component" when it really isn't. It's not terrible, but not as good as true RGB component and much better than base band composite.

Actually, I've found that the quality of a given capture board has more to do with successful capture off SVHS than anything. I have a Pennacle board with true component inputs that I use with my BetacamSP deck and I found that I could see virtually no difference between capturing off of SVHS out of the Beta deck or the component. However, on a friends system that has only SVHS in and no component, the SVHS capture reeks in comparison. Likewise, I've seen a HUGE difference in playback quality between consumer SVHS machines and the broadcast grade machines. I still am not overly fond of SVHS in general, but I know of a couple of distribution companies that use SVHS off professional machines quite successfully. Not as good as off Beta, but not terrible.

Roger

[MadFor3D]

Well,

I love my DPS PVR card. It works without a hitch. I know they don't make it any more. Supposedly they're new Velocity card is a big improvement. Allows you to do lots of stuff real time. I don't know, I'm happy with this one. I'm learning that it should be enough for my editing needs- which is a relief cause I've bought enough stuff only to find out it didn't really do what I wanted.

Peace,

M


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